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Wintersturmer: Winterstorms aria motival affiliates?

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:51 am
by alberich00
Hail, kind sir....

Please tell me if this is completely off the wall, or if there might be something to this musing: when I consulted your section on motifs for the derivation of the first section of the "Wintersturm" aria, it stated that this was uncertain. I was wondering if there might be a link to Hunding's motif...a contrast between societally-coerced union and free love, as it were. The two motifs are heard sequentially as Siegmund recalls happier times while gazing over the sleeping Sieglinde, when the Wintersturm motif is interrupted harshly by a furious variant of Hunding's motif. That variant consists of a single repeated note, but delivered with the same rhythm as the original Hunding motif. It conveys the same obsessive fury as the rapidly repeated note of Wotan in pursuit of Brunhilde, immediately before he appears before the Valkyries in Act 3. If one takes the Wintersturm motif and transforms it to a single note and speeds up the tempo, one gets something that rhymically sounds quite similar to this "Hunding's fury" motif. It's a bit of a transformation that's akin to the Ring motif morphing into the Valhalla motif in Rhinegold...

I mind has played tricks on me before...


Re: Wintersturmer: Winterstorms aria motival affiliates?

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:52 am
by alberich00
Dear Wintersturmer:

Verily I say unto you, I'm not sure what you're talking about on this one. The motif I associate with Wotan's angry pursuit of Brünnhilde is actually (and ironically) the Gods' Need Motif H82ab, which is comprised of Erda's Motif H52, approximately the Twilight of the Gods Motif H53 (approximately an inversion of H52; I realize there are two types of inversion), and H80, Wotan's Frustration, overlaying these two motifs. H82 was introduced during Wotan's confession to Brünnhilde in V.2.2 that a hero is needed whom the gods haven't helped, etc. And I'm not sure whether you're talking about Hunding's Motif per se, which is H66, or Hunding's Pursuit H86 (defined by Dr. Allen Dunning), which is a slowed down version of that 6 note slithery motif which Cooke identified as Alberich's Motif, but which I call "Alberich's Futile Wooing," namely, H6. This is associated in V.2.3-5 with Hunding's fury at the Wälsungs and pursuit of them for vengeance. I don't hear a connection of any of these motifs to Siegmund's Wintersturme aria H72, but what do I know.

We'd need the aid of someone who can read orchestral scores and for whom the "Ring" is second nature, and that's not me, sad to say.

So says Alberich00 of